Thursday, September 20, 2007
Bahl Juror: Valid or Invalid Rationale?
A juror who was on Bahl's jury entered a post on Mishka Zena's blog to present his side of legal view of Bahl's charge of "Obstruction of legal process." There is a hot debate whether this juror presented a valid rationale
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14 comments:
Well said!!!
I agree with you that all drivers should be calm down and dont get any emotional or lose of control.
I think there should be additional element as "cop confrontation" in driving education. So all drive learners would understand and gain their acknowledge about coping issues of cop confrontation while they are driving.
So it would prevent from happening kind of wrong confrontation between drivers and cops.
Is it great idea? isn't?
I really admire your explaining about every corner of the situation.
Glamour thumbs up! Believe me that you impressed well. I had no idea about which side I should take...You showed a clear picture of both sides. The jurors seem that they did their best because of golden rules.
I don't blame the cop for his protection because his job is very stressful. He has to be alert all the time. One important thing is about the deaf facial expressions. The cop doesn't know anything about deaf facial expressions. It could misunderstand him that Doug was serious on the issue. You know the deaf facial expressions are like when you ask why...the way the eye brows look so serious. It could misunderstand the cop very easily. What do you think?
I do agree with you that the cop went too far. It Is too much for Doug Bahl.
I think Doug Bahl didn't realize that it already caused all the misunderstanding which is very dangerous.
It's sad about Doug's civil rights that are ignored. They shouldn't do that way. He is the victim for being ignored.
Thank you so much for your wonderful vlog.
I'm confused. I thought the cop pulled Doug out of the car? And that the officer reached into Doug's car to unbuckle his seatbelt? I don't know because I wasn't there. But I agree with most of what you said.
You made a valid point on how the law enforcement system works. Of course, it is their job to protect themselves, and it is our job as a citizen to stay calm. Honestly, most of us are not able to stay calm when our heart rate increased that might lead to anxiety or panic attack. It is our job to protect ourselves as well. WE viewed that law enforcement are supposed to protect us. Law enforcement is support to see no violence, but yet, they created more violence toward us when they feel unable to get the message across because of their ignorant on Deaf issue. Law enforcement freaked out by making horrible physical attack on Deaf people as to either “protect” themselves, wanting to have power and control on Deaf, and/or just wanting to hurt Deaf as if they really hate Deaf people. There are so many “what if” situations. Of course, the judge and jury must believe in law enforcement first before the citizen. Law enforcement should NOT make any physical contact by hurting them. That’s how I feel after I read Misha’s comment and other people’s comment on Doug Bahl. Also, it is important that to communicate with Deaf person, it has to be facing toward each other, not behind or far side by side where we cannot see their face just to find out what he or she is saying and then to express our message through facial and using our hands. Each state MUST provide sensitivity and in-depth Deaf culture, communication, and related issue to ALL law enforcements, judges, jury, and state/federal employees.
I enjoyed your vlogs so much. Thank you,
Judy
Anonymous
No, the cop did not pull Doug out of the car. Doub got out of the car to approach the cop and try to communicate with him that he wanted him to use paper and pen. That was why I said time and again never to get out of the car if the cop hasn't asked you to do so. That would be interpreted as a potential threat to the cop.
Other commenters,
Yes, I agree. Cop might have misunderstood Doug's wild signing and frowining face as "attitude" and "uncooperative" and "combative." Educating them would help tremendously to reduce misinterpretations of body language.
I read that Doug was in the car, he refused to cooperate with the police when they asked him for his driver's license. They then held on his wrist, he got mad. So they tried to unbuckle him and he bit the cop's thumb/arm so they took him forcibly out of his car and sprayed Mace on his face. Doug probably was scared and fought them off and this is how he got arrested. This is what I read from the media link. In hindsight, Doug should have cooperated with the cops by handing his drivers license, the cops should have cooperated by writing with him so I blame on both of them that the situation turned real bad.
Here is the link:
http://www.twincities.com/stpaul/ci_6922223?source=rv&nclick_check=1
I got some information wrong so please disregard it and read the link.
arent they going to have some DEAF in jury court? they should !
There had been deaf who served on juries, however,I guess there was none in the jury selection process who happened to be deaf for the Bahl trial. Too bad. Or they knew beforehand it was for the Bahl trial that they decline to serve on jury due to conflict of interest since deaf community is small and the potential juror might know Bahl, is an acquintance, or a friend. I know if I were called to serve on the Bahl jury, I am likely to recuse myself.
From what i undy it got nothing to do with him getting out of car any cops will start with hold hands to check any weapons before talk with anyone if anyone pull away from cops ofc they will arrest you but beating him up is wrong i read comments somewhere that they did offered him a phone call with tty but doug refused so i dont know i rather wait till doug tell us for himself
Sm13th,
Doug got out of the car unasked which put the cop in self-protection mode plus he signed widly too close to the cop so the cop grabbed his arm. I've said it is a mistake to get out of the car when not instructed to do so.
Another mistake on Doug's part was pulling away his arm from cop's grasp - an act of resistance or defiance to a cop, so the cop was within his right to arrest him.
BUT the beating? The macing? No. These were unjustified. Doug is suing the cop for those in addition to given no accomodations at jail for 4 days - they only gave him a VOICE phone which he could not use.
Yes, it has all to do with pulling the arm away - the cop reacted to that act of resistance to which Doug disagreed - he was just pulling away to write on a pad of paper. Golden rule - never pull away when restrained by a cop. It would only make things worse for yourself.
Michelle,
Yes, I saw some comments that Doug was forcibly pulled out of the car which is inaccurate. He got out himself without instruction from the cop which led the cop to get into self-protection mode and pulling away from his grasp on his arm was another mistake - it is an act of resistance or defiance to a cop, so the cop was within his authority to arrest him
The civil trial is under way and with evidence of the photos and his stay in jail for 4 days should suffice for Doug to be awarded for punitive damages.
I think the cop should be fired. Beating up on an unarmed citizen? Just yesterday, a Phoenix cop was fired for yelling profanity and racism slurs at a driver which was captured on his police car webcam.
I think physical assault on an unarmed citizen is worse than simply yelling at them, don't you agree? It annoys me how much they shield the cops from their misconducts and unprofessionalism.
Cy,
Your advice to the deaf drivers in your vlog as well as in your previous vlog is so valuable that I think perhaps you might consider
listing "Do's and Dont's" to the deaf drivers in both vlog and blog as soon as possible. Deaf
drivers would be very grateful and
indebted to you!
The juror stated that when Bahl was asked why he moved away his hands, he said it was so he can write. Juor heard Bahl's atty explained that Bahl was in pain. If Bahl said "I moved away my hands because I was in pain" then the juror would have viewed it not as "resist". But because Bahl wanted to move away so he can write thus, "doing things HIS WAY", that interprets to "resist".
Usually court gives Jurors "instruction" and they have to follow that "instruction" as to how they reach a verdict. So, the Juor was focusing on the instruction. The trial was not about how Bahl was treated but WHY he was accused of resisting arrest.
Many people, both hearing and deaf have gotten out of the vehicle and they should not have. This would cause police to be on "high alert". Some cops will shoot, many will get their weapons out because they don't know what is going to happen next.
I had witnessed similar incident years ago by my deaf brother. He was lucky the cops did not do anything. The cop was PISSED and gave us all lecture about getting out of the car when pulled over. He actually told my brother he almost shot him. He let us on our way, but not after a long lengthly lecture with his mouth wide and gestures which we all understood clearly.
Bahl was resisting in the eyes of the law.
Many cops are ignorant and have never met a deaf person in their life. Kind of scarey if you think about it. Cy's advice is certainly sound.
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