Sunday, January 20, 2008
Validity of Great Schools Website Scores
Burke Outspoken posted on her blog information using the Great Schools website's standardized test scores to compare the performance levels of the schools for the deaf. Great Schools site is not a valid source to measure performance levels when comparing state to state - it is valid only for in-state comparsion because states vary in their benchmarks.
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Is that what you want? I think it's valid.
Here it is:
http://www.ed.gov/ndb/accountability/results/progress/index.html
The website is from the Dept of Education.
White Ghost
I can see your point. I also noticed the differences in the state benchmarks when my family moved from Rochester, NY to Indianapolis almost two years ago. There are many things that my daughter had already learned at RSD in pre-K, and she had to relearn them in ISD's kindergarten. Same goes for my son... I guess we could say that the Indiana benchmarks were slightly lower than the NYS benchmarks, but then that is in my viewpoint. Nevertheless my kids are doing very well academically.
However, ISD is located in the city of Indianapolis, so the cirrculum follows the IPS (Indianapolis Public Schools) cirrculum which is in need for a big revamp (on the average 63% of IPS failed ISTEP [state test] and I am talking about HEARING schools)... cripes.
You are right, we need to analyze the benchmarks and we cannot compare the deaf schools to other deaf schools.
Wow, you moved around a lot ;o)
Thanks for you sharing
Karen, Yep. But I don't recommend moving so much. It affected my older son's education. Some kids can handle it and some can't.
White Ghost,
Both Great Schools AND department of education scores are valid ONLY for its state and the school for the deaf can compare its score with other schools in THE SAME STATE only because all schools in that said state conform to the same benchmarks.
Therefore it is NOT appropriate to use either sources when comparing schools for the deaf when they are in DIFFERENT STATES because each state has such wide range of benchmarks from grade to grade. Therefore the scores posted on Jamie's blog are invalid.
Well, for you to dismiss them as invalid just because the states have their own benchmarks is in itself ridiculous. It does tell us how well the schools are performing vis-a-vis state standards.
You are right in saying that we should not compare the state schools w/ each other, but the scores DO TELL us how the schools themselves are performing and that is valid.
Anonymous,
The scores ARE valid when comparing to other. schools in the SAME state, yes. I am saying the scores are invalid when comparing to schools that are in OTHER states which is the case with schools for the deaf.
The state benchmarks are tailored for schools in that state only - unrelated to the neighboring states or any other states. So the schools in my state, the Tucson and Phoenix campuses, and their scores are valid when comparing to each other as is true for CSDR and CSDF, two campuses in NC, several campuses in NY...get my gist? You cannot compare scores of CSDR with our Phoenix campus because CA and AZ have different benchmarks upon which their state standardized tests are based on.
Thanks for your vlog. You're right we always should question the validity of the
statistics, just as we should always question any statistics and research.
There are plenty of researchers out there who do play with statistics in
order to get results that match their hypotheses. Sometimes they flirt with
ethical boundaries; other times they cross right over them. Anyone can
enter numbers on a website. I am glad you reminded us to think critically
when it comes to assessing validity of statistics and research on Deaf
schools.
Candace,
Thanks for validating my comments! You said it better than I did. I failed to add that the scores presented on Great Schools site may be valid for in-state schools, including the state school for the deaf, to compare academic performances based on the state's benchmarks - but you said it...even comparing in-state schools, those scores are not necessarily valid. Those standardized tests are geared for middle school white socio-economical demographics, so other groups of students would indeed score lower and is not necessarily an indicator that they are performing lower just as is true for deaf students.
Make sense, Cy.
So, Jaime Berke's blog, regarding the Great Schools is now invalid.
You are right.
White Ghost
Cy,
I second Candace McCullough. My suspicison holds it that -- based on their bias and prejudice -- researchers do not like what they see and write down numbers that they want others to see. That is one of the frustrations about schools and statistics. The best
researchers or statistics would be
to hire the independent ones.
Jean,
Yeah - statistics and scoring could be tweaked to achieve an agenda or to promote an agenda.
A neutral party should have the only access to such website to enter true statistical information which is not the case witrh Great Schools site.
White Ghost,
I am not sure if you were being sarcastic in your last comment?
thanks for sharing and it's good to see you again.
Thanks for bringing this up. I did question the validity of that statistics over at Berke's blog. It's a good tool to use when you are locally in the same state.
Cy,
Right now, my son is in preschool but when he is in elementary, I would look at his performance everyday at school. I would not depend a lot on his scores with state tests. Thanks for reminding me to think twice about the benchmarks if we move to other state. Agreed with you that moving a lot is hard on children.
JRB
Well, after I read what you said, I realized that Candy made the valid points and I also realize that Jaime Berke's blog on Great Schools is invalid because there are no borderlines all over the states.
Unless the department of the education via governors can post the status though the website, news, newspapers on these school reports, thus, it might be the valid.
White Ghost
Yes, but the scores STILL DO tell us how the schools are performing. As a parent, that is very important information in terms of deciding the placement of my children... should I send them to a state school or place them in the mainstream. The facts give me some information about their successes.
To just dismiss them all together as invalid just because state schools are in different states. I'm not comparing the state schools w/ each other. I'm comparing them with the performance of other schools in the same state and the comparisons still do tell me a lot.
I think your attempts to declare the scores invalid are just defensive mechanisms on your part to defend your performance as a teacher. Surely parents would give second thoughts before placing them at state schools, that's for certain....
Last anonymous at 2:37 AM,
Read again - scroll up the comments. I DID comment that the scores are valid for IN_STATE schools - they are good tools to compare schools within the same state. It is a good tool to evaluate a school where you want to send your children.
Schools for the deaf in different states are a whole a DIFFERENT STORY due to varied state benchmarks which was the whole point of my vlog when discussing Jamie Burke's blog on Great Schools site and schools for the deaf. She did not at all discuss local schools. She was comparing schools in different states.
I DID use Great Schools when I moved back to AZ and where I live has a school district that offers open enrollment meaning I can enroll my sons at any of their schools in their district and I used Great Schools and found the nearest school to our home was low performing school and I sent both my boys to another school that took me only 5 minutes longer to drive since they lose bus privilege when attending schools outside their boundaries. My boys continued to stay on open enrollment throughout their years with our school district and are now in high school. The high school on the next block from our home is low performing so my boys attend the high school about 8 minutes drive from home.
Great Schools is only valid when comparing schools within the SAME state. Invalid when comparing CA and AZ. AZ and OR, etc. Like Jamie comparing Kansas school for deaf and Maryland school for Deaf and saying Kan performs better at 13% over MD's 7%. Invalid information.
FYI: Chad attended ASDB for 6 years. I am part of Chad as family.
I am not suprised about ASDB. I wish my parent r listen to me in first place. I knew there not right about ASDB.
Want to know more about ASDB Education. All of u Can go to Meeting on JAN 30.
Thanks.
Other thing why deaf parent working ASDB and they sent kids to MILES SCHOOL?
Chad's friend
I am an ASDB graduate myself.
I don't think there is anything wrong with ASDB. It is Chad's parents who were not understanding 6 years worth of IEPs explaining to them that Chad's academic performance was at 3rd/4th grade which is average for most deaf graduates.
I've visited Miles twice - I was thinking of sending my older son there but I decided not to. He went to Clerc School instead and was there one semester. Clerc was too far from my home, as was Miles, I eventually moved him to a local public school. So, I know Miles and the program there was just okay. Not any better than ASDB, in my opinion.
And I am a teacher by profession.
If you are talking about deaf parents with deaf children who sent them to Miles instead of ASDB - Oftentimes, DODs (Deaf children of Deaf adults) are more academically equivalent to hearing peers than the DOHs (Deaf children of Hearing adults) due to communication access at birth the same as hearing babies. They handle mainstreamed setting well - I believe they are mainstreamed at Miles and not in the deaf program. The deaf program's resources teachers at Miles oversees their progresses. That is my understanding.
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